Obama wants to talk about "the issues"

Something hit me as strange when I heard Obama give his talk about how it took 45 minutes for the moderators of this week's debate to finally hit on the 'issues' that 'voters care about'.

At first it made sense, right?  Talk about the issues, right?

Sure, that's why it was such a slick political move.

See, Obama built his whole campaign around how he would campaign.  He harped on it over and over.  HE never talked about the issues.  He only spoke of hope, or change, or new politics.

This is the reason that his sudden care of the 'issues' rings so hollow.

MEMO TO OBAMA: If you wanted the media to ask you about the issues, then you should have talked about the issues.  But you refused, instead you wanted to discuss the phenomenom that is OBAMA...the CHANGE you would bring...the HOPE you would fulfill.

THIS is why your personal relationships are fair game.  You want to unify?

THen why do you go to a church where hate is commonplace?

You want to reach across the aisle?

Then why do you openly lie and misrepresent the views of you opponents?

You want to create change?

Then why do you insist on practicing the same old politics of Chicago's political machine?

You see, Obama, YOU made this election about YOU.

That's why you are fair game.

Have fun.



Display:


Oops (none / 0)

Actually he does talk  about the issues in his speeches. Clearly you  didn't listen to them.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:50:26 PM EST

Actually (2.00 / 3)

He doesn't.  He tells us that we will have universal healthcare, but doesn't tell us how.  And if we go to his website, we find out that his plan leaves 15-25 million Americans out.  He doesn't tell us how exactly he's going to pay for any of his promises.  He just tells us that our collective anger will somehow make it so.

Obama tells us yes, we can.

Hillary tells us how we can.

That's the difference.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

Um. You just admitted that he talks about issues.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I fear you are mistaken (2.00 / 1)

As I have listened to his speeches, I hear Rev. Wright's tactics loud and clear. Let's build US up while tearing the other one down. Happens all the time. This "bitter" thing is a window into how he really thinks (when he isn't thinking about thinking) - His approach is to touch people's angers and fears as a way to motivate and hope that someone else will channel all that anger into something positive.
Listen to Hillary - she does not rile people up, she inspires them. She gets us to believe that we CAN make a difference.
Very different messages - very different core values.

by pan230oh on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I fear you are mistaken (none / 0)

Rev. Wright? What?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

Amen.  And I would point out that in the second portion of the debate where more substantive issues were discussed, he was schooled and seemed lost.

Unfortunately, he's got this nomination all but lock up.  No way HRC gets it, but this vote will not be going to Obama.


by brucedickie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:50:43 PM EST

Re: (none / 0)

Interesting. So who are you going to vote for?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:52:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

McCain, as a lesser of evils.  There are principally three reasons I cannot and will not vote for Obama:

1.  The behavior of the media and "activists" this cycle.  It has bordered on the ridiculous in terms of how inscrutable they've made Obama.  They're unabashedly for Obama, HRC be damned. In there quest to anoint Obama they've been abusive to non-Obama supporters, there's simply no debate but just name-calling and blind obsession.

2.   Obama hasn't been as forthright as his campaign theme of "Change" and "Out with Politics of Division." What I see is just another politician using words to cast a shield around himself and campaign which has used the very tactics that he calls out against.

3.  Although I wasn't sure up until Wednesday's debate, his answers on the issue of taxes confirmed for me the fact that he is running a campaign of pitting classes of people against each other.  When asked why about capital gains and the SSI cap, his only answer was based on punishing moderate to high income earners (covered in language of "fairness") Messages of wealth redistribution thinly veiled as "fairness" don't sit well with me, and I refuse to be labeled as unfair because I earn slightly more than 100K when the fact is I already get taxed close to 40%.  I just don't like being used as a pawn for figurative class warfare for politic expediency.

HRC at least, promised not tax hike for those below the 250K bracket.


by brucedickie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:06:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Sweet. End of Roe and more war!


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

Roe will never be reversed and these kind of misconceptions that gets folks worked up over such fears.

Abortion rights have been ingrained into society and are more or less mainstream. Whatever the makeup of the supreme court, they'd never dare reverse Roe.

As for the war, good Lord, I'd do anything to turn back the clock!  What a disaster.

But do you honestly think Obama is going to withdraw troops immediately? I seem to remember reading about a 16-month plan? I don't know


by brucedickie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Right. Roe will never be reversed. It'll just be gutted. Actually, Roe can easily be reversed and there are good legal, though not policy, reasons for it if you're a "conservative" justice.

I don't think Obama will be invading or attacking Iraq. I imagine the facts on the ground will dictate how quickly he pulls out.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the super delegates will decide (2.00 / 1)

he doesn't have anything locked up.  


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I drove 7 hours to get PA for Hill (2.00 / 3)

and then she will win Indiana, NC and all the upcoming states.  Hillary will win this thing so please don't give in to the Obama line that it's all over.

That is their party line, not the truth.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I drove 7 hours to get PA for Hill (none / 0)

I hope you're right.  But the NBC's and CNN's of the world have their horse, our votes be damned.


by brucedickie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I drove 7 hours to get PA for Hill (none / 0)

Dude, she doesn't stand a chance in N.C., And she would have to win EVERY remaining state by 30 points. Once again, please show us how she could possibly achieve that?????


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I drove 7 hours to get PA for Hill (none / 0)

How many times do we have to point this out?

Obama CANNOT REACH THE REQUIRED DELEGATE COUNT EITHER.

Therefore the SDels will decide it.  And they're NOT bound by anything other than their conscience and reason.

Chew on that for a minute.  She's gonna force this one to the wire.  He's too mistake prone for her not to do it.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I drove 7 hours to get PA for Hill (none / 0)

Once Hill loses NC and Indiana, I expect she will finally be escorted off center stage.

What she needs to do is take responsibility for the fact that she ran a shoddy campaign and start concentrating on what's best the democratic party...not trying to live out some fantasy of a Clinton dynasty in the White House.

Her ego was her biggest downfall from the very beginning...and it means more to her than her party.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

I ask because he railed on whites, Amerikkka, and US imperialism.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:51:25 PM EST

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

There seems to be no position. Just a few sentences probably copied and pasted from hillaryis44. The diarist didn't even have the time to assemble complete paragraphs with substance.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

I know. It's very funny. Particularly the bit about Chicago because I'm from Chicago. This poster clearly knows nada about Chicago politics, or Trinity, or Obama, or well...anything.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

I'm in Chicago as well. Well, the suburbs really.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

Until we've got some missing ballot boxes popping up in the homes of Obama campaign staffers and a bunch of dead people voting for Obama his campaign is amateur hour.

My SO is from the burbs. If this place only had the weather of San Diego it'd be just about perfect IMO.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

My favorite switching sides comment:

KOSSACKS can kiss my A**.

by switching sides on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 03:43:45 AM EST

Clearly, he craves rational discourse with Obama supporters.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

Ha! Mydd put me on notice for calling a diarist "Morally bankrupt". But that comment stays. Funny.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

dude, that's just a comment from this particular member...i could spend all day posting the insanely hateful and offensive comments from other people here about us.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

Civil discourse with an Obamaton?

I've given up on that months ago, when I left KOS.

BTW, I still say, with much glee, "Kossacks can kiss my a$$"


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:09:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

And we still laugh at you for it.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (2.00 / 1)

MLK hated injustice against people. At his most prophetic he called everyone to be held to account at a higher court of judgment than himself. He would have been appalled at Rev Wright's insistence that he (Wright) knew what was right or wrong. He would have walked out on Rev Wright's speeches describing Senator Clinton.


by pan230oh on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it your position that MLK was a hater? (none / 0)

King said moderate whites were more of a problem than the KKK.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has dropped like a rock (2.00 / 2)

in the gallup polls since the debate, he was already falling before that.  However his complaining about "questions are hard work" all week just made the drop more dramatic.

He is running a new add in PA promising to keep us safe, rebuild the military,  and give money to vets causes.  The problem is that he looks goofy doing it.  It's his version of the kitchen sink campaign and not convincing to people who already know Clinton is on their side on these issues and has already done the hard work to get these initiatives off the ground.


For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:56:09 PM EST

Re: Obama has dropped like a rock (none / 0)

On their side. Hard work. Comedy.

Unfortunately for you Clinton will not get the nomination. Will you vote Green or GOP?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama has dropped like a rock (none / 0)

It's his version of the kitchen sink campaign

Uh...just so we're clear, you consider it a kitchen sink strategy to promise to "keep us safe, rebuild the military, and give money to vets' causes"?

How dare he!


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama has dropped like a rock (2.00 / 1)

Yes, the nerve. Of course if that stuff is the kitchen sink does that make the Clinton ads the garbage disposal?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama wants to talk (2.00 / 3)

I think you might have been a bit less antagonistic about making your point, but yes of course you're completely correct.

It is ironic for the Junior Senator to cry foul when we don't talk about "the issues" because he never does.  But you are quite insightful in the way you put it: he is campaigning about campaigning.

As the folks at Politico pointed out, a greater portion of the ABC debate was devoted to issues than most prior debates.  It seems hypocritical for Obama to say, on the one hand, that we should be talking about issues that matter, but then on the other hand devote an entire day to complaining about ABC's choice of questions.

I think there's no doubt that the magic and luster of his campaign is gone.  Camp Obama has gone so far off it's original message - now devoting most of their airwaves to the hopelessness of Clinton's candidacy or the anger and frustration of some voters.  How did we get here from there?

I'm not sure, but it is one of the reasons that I changed my support to Hillary, after voting for Obama in the Virginia primary.  These aren't the new politics we were promised.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:56:37 PM EST

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

Never does. Ha. More comedy from people who have clearly never listened to his speeches.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 01:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (2.00 / 3)

Not only do I listen to his speeches, but I have read every document on his website, I have been to one of his events, and I voted for him in the Virginia primary.

So kindly take your arrogant little head out of your ass.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

lmao


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

If that were true you wouldn't have made that false statement.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (2.00 / 2)

Great reply.  You should have written this diary instead of me.

:)


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

Never talks about issues?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:19:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

Well let's look at those.

Your first link, "The Great Need of the Hour", is a brilliant sermon.  I had listened to it before, and enjoyed reading it again.  But it is just that: a sermon.  There isn't a policy outlined here.  He tells us we need unity.  OK.  Well how do you enact "unity" as a policy?  He apparently hasn't set a good example, and this whole sermon sounds a bit hypocritical in light of his own "mentor's" sermons.

Your second link, "The World Beyond Iraq", tells us why we need to leave Iraq.  Then it tells us that we're going to leave Iraq.  OK.  He wants to draw down in a way that is orderly and does not destabilize the region - yes, but how do we do that?  These are the kinds of questions that Hillary answers, that he does not.

Your third link, "Renewing the Economy", is a mixture of good, bad, and just plain wrong.  For example, he talks about a desire for shared prosperity, but then claims that the Clinton and Bush administrations were no different in this regard.  Both failures, he claims.  This is not only a disservice to Democrats and his own G/E chances of victory, but it's deeply false.  Under the Clinton administration, the average family's income went up $7,000.  We created over 20 million new jobs.  Wall Street did REALLY well, but we lifted more people up out of poverty than during any time in recent history.

So the Clinton administration was a role model for shared prosperity, which is what Hillary's campaign is also based on.  Yet, Obama desides to trash it, as he has trashed so much of our party, for short term political points.

So what, then, is Barack's solution for getting our economy working?  He says there are two things we need to do.  We need to address the housing crisis, and we need to regulate a lot more.

Huh?

We might need to regulate more, but that by itself will not jump start our economy.  We need to create jobs, and getting our fiscal affairs in order so that we don't continue to have such a weak hand at the trading table (it's hard to be tough on your trading partner when you depend on them to debt-finance your government).

So he misses the mark.

Lastly, you link A More Perfect Union, a speech in which Barack describes the way in which we can all atone for our original sin: nominating him.

I've commenting on this speech at length, before, and in fairness to it, I can't summarize my critique of it in only a few sentences, so I will pass.

In closing, I'd like to thank you for linking the speeches.  I think that was a constructive approach, but I don't think these speeches address the lack of substance that we're complaining about.  We need to see concrete plans and solutions: not just yes we can, but how we can.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

"Campaigning about campaigning"

Ha, never thought of it that way, but you're so right!


by brucedickie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama wants to talk (none / 0)

I concur with this assessment. Senator Obama and his handlers are just a little bit late in trying to run to the high ground. For the past TWO MONTHS, the Clinton camp has been beating on the drum of "Solutions, not Speeches". She has given major policy addresses all over the country, and continued to meet with large and small groups, hold town halls, and saved most of her condemnations for the folks that really deserve it - the Republican administation.


by pan230oh on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was listening to his recent speech (2.00 / 1)

where he attempted to bash McCain.  It was interesting to hear it, not see it,  sometimes one gets a better chance to actually hear what he is saying.

What struck me was the "flatness" of his speech, the mono-tone way in which he described McCain.  No charisma, and it sounded like he didn't want to take McCain on at all. He criticised, but really offered nothing in return that he would do.  "Hope" is not an effective counter to "the 100 year war".


by 4justice on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:04:18 PM EST

Re: I was listening to his recent speech (2.00 / 1)

THe 100 year war. Heh.  You know he never actually said that, right?

But its a good rhetorical weapon, I guess.

On with it!


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was listening to his recent speech (none / 0)

Right. Because there will be 100 years of peace while we occupy Iraq. That line of thinking is of course incredibly flawed and a 100 occupation would be 100 years of war.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, McCain's full statement (none / 0)

did not say "100 year war"....McCain said a "military presence like Korea".  

And the rub I see is that the Obama campaign uses " war for 100 years" as the theme to rail against...and that would be ok if that is what McCain actually said.  So when the campaign takes on 100 year war to rail against, and then says, "under me, we won't do that", the detail is missed: when are our troops coming home, how, our policy stand, our diplomatic efforts?  

It becomes a false point of conflict: war or no war?  This is devoid of all the complexities associated with disengaging from Iraq; the original lies that got us there; the kinds of changes that he sees are necessary beyond the "new face" in DC. That is why I heard Obama's remarks as "flat", I suppose.  


by 4justice on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes, McCain's full statement (none / 0)

Every year in Iraq would be a war. There would be no peace. It isn't Korea, Japan or Germany. It's that lack of understanding of the ME that  got us into this  in the first place. 100 years of occupation = 100 years of war.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not debating McCain' statements (none / 0)

for heavens sake.  I can see how you would make the connection with 100 years of war.  But remember that is not what McCain said, and the average voter may or may not link the thread to "100 years of war."

It is a good campaign slogan, but my point is that it sets up a false choice ("war/"no war") and ignores the complexity of the issue.  The solutions to this issue are what is going to matter in the end, not how it is spun or used as a campaign slogan.

On that count, McCain just has a greater depth of experience to call from in international relations and strategies.  What will help Obama is to start using that language effectively, not "100 years of war".  And do it now because he does not have the luxury of wating until later.


by 4justice on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 02:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not debating McCain' statements (none / 0)

I have faith that the average voter knows that 100 years of occupation = 100 years of war.

The issue is certainly complex but not in such a way that a permanent presence in Iraq is anything but a permanent state of war.

Hm. Does McCain have relevant ME experience? It doesn't seem like it. He doesn't even know the difference between the Shia and the Sunni.  


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was listening to his recent speech (none / 0)

Well, in fairness to McCain, he was trying to make a point of sorts.  He never said something like "I plan to stay in Iraq for 100 years."  He was trying to dismiss the idea that fixed timelines were important, so when an interviewer pressed him and asked "1 year, 5 years, 10 years??" McCain snapped back "maybe 100 years, I don't know."

Now, this was a crude gaffe and he deserves to be hit for it.  But honestly he has never advocated a 100 year plan of any sort.


Eyes on the Prize: Hillary 08
by bobbank on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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