Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views?

by switching sides, Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:44:17 PM EST

Breaking!! In an interview with Bill Moyers tge Reverend Jeremiah Wright is apparently claiming that  Obama is only appearing to disagree with his views because of political necessity.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0 408/Wrights_defense.html

Incredibly, the Reverend seems to be saying that Obama is making these claims (about disagreeing with Wrights remarks) only because of expediency. I dont know about anyone else, but I actually believed that Obama most likely didn't hear these crazy things (at least not the very worst)...But after this interview, I'm starting to wonder.

And the REAL question is: Does Obama in fact AGREE with the Rev Wright on these issues?

Does he believe that the US government created AIDS to target blacks?

That we somehow deserved 911?

I have to tell you...if Obama believes those things, he is absolutely unqualified to lead this nation.

More on this...


Poll
Does this hurt obama
yes
no

Votes: 58
Results : Vote Link : Polls


Tags: obama wright, the diary is one writers opinion and many agree, great diary, awesome diary, fantastic diary, great diary or greatest diary? (all tags)

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Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 11)

That's dishonest.  That's not was said at all.

   Mr. Wright, who has acted as Mr. Obama's spiritual mentor and retired in February as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, said that he has never heard Mr. Obama repeat any of his controversial statements.

   "Absolutely not," Mr. Wright said. "I don't talk to him about politics. And so he had a political event, he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I continue to be a pastor who speaks to the people of God about the things of God."

   Mr. Obama publicly denounced Mr. Wright's remarks, a reaction Mr. Wright said "went down very simply."

   "He's a politician, I'm a pastor," he said. "We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor. But they're two different worlds."


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:45:57 PM EST

Re: Get the quote right (2.00 / 2)

You forgot this important part:

He added, "I do what I do. He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician."

Basically, Obama responded in a politicially expedient manner.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ 04/24/wright-says-his-words-were-twisted /

Wright also did not repudiate anything he said:

In Mr. Wright's sermons, he suggested that Americans bore some responsibility for the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, saying "America's chickens are coming home to roost." He also blamed the government for the spread of AIDS among African-Americans, characterized the United States government as corrupt and referred to the "U.S. of K.K.K. A."
He did not apologize or back away from his remarks in the interview...


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get the quote right (none / 0)

I copied it directly from Ben Smith's Blog.  In any event, it doesn't change the meaning at all.

Just wishful thinking.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get the quote right (2.00 / 2)

And Ben Smith got it from the NY Times. It fortifies the claim that Wright believed Obama repudiated his views due to political necessity.

He does what politicians do. So that what happened in Philadelphia where he had to respond to the sound bytes, he responded as a politician."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get the quote right (none / 0)

You can twist it and read it to how you want to read it as a partisan Sen. Clinton supporter, but that doesn't change its actual meaning.

Again, wishful thinking.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:15:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get the quote right (2.00 / 1)

And as a strident Obama supporter, you can try to wish away his problem with Rev. Wright.

Ain't gonna happen.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (2.00 / 10)

Wow, it doesn't bother you that this diary is an outright lie?  Not a distorition, but an outright lie.


by gchaucer2 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:50:21 PM EST

Re: Huh? (2.00 / 2)

"We speak to two different audiences. And he says what he has to say as a politician. I say what I have to say as a pastor.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (2.00 / 3)

You must not be very good with reading comprehension.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Have you completely abandoned reason? (2.00 / 1)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Have you completely abandoned reason? (1.50 / 2)

With this one, that should have been obvious a very long time ago.


by bawbie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:36:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To the rec list! nt. (2.00 / 2)


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:11:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes yes, Soon (none / 0)

folks along the right side of MyDD can do fundraising drives for that nice Congressman from Indiana!


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Disgusting diary, i hope that Jerome (2.00 / 2)

makes sure that this site does NOT have these kinds of diaries on this Democratic site once we have a Democratic nominee.


by puma on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:54:12 PM EST

Re: Disgusting diary, i hope that Jerome (1.16 / 6)

Cry me a river.

This is a serious problem for Obama.  Read the article before you start getting holier than thou.

I used correct verbiage, i said he 'seemed to'  and 'apparently'...

I was talking about my impressions, and that is the impression that I, and many others on politico, got from this interview.

I am not alone.  Disagree if you will, but I am not a liar.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disgusting diary, i hope that Jerome (1.00 / 1)

"many others"

Do you live in a group home?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disgusting diary, i hope that Jerome (2.00 / 2)

This is the kind of Karl Rove crap that will elect John McCain this fall. Argue on the issues. Don't make up stuff about what Reverent Wright said. Or take it to Red State where they'll agree with your agenda.


by elrod on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 1)

b/c any good Democrat would never engage in such a Limbaugh-like smear job.


Clinton Democrats care about the same things I do, most importantly beating John McCain.
by TrueBlueCT on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:19:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 2)

I am just wondering.  Since i am not defending this thread.  When we saw like 15 bosnia threads was that being a good democrat.  Just wondering.

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 1)

There was a big difference.  With the Bosnia thing, Sen. Clinton did lie, here there is no evidence that Sen. Obama lied at all.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:40:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 2)

Really so you have some evidence that HRC knowing lied.  Just checking.  And my bet is there have been 3 x more bosnia threads than Rev Wright ones.

Just check for the usual double standard.

By the way when BO said at the debated that neither he nor anyone else in his campaign was pushing the bosnia story was that a lie.

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:52:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (none / 0)

I searched:

There have been about 612 diaries that mentioned Rev Wright.

There have been about 170 diaries that mentioned Bosnia.

And what kind of evidence do you need that she lied?  She said something repeatedly that wasn't the truth.  Let it go.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 1)

funny i thought you were going to finish with HRC is not a real democrat.  Also, i guess you just forgot to address BO lie in the debate.  I am sure this was just and oversight on your part.

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (none / 0)

I am not sure what lie in the debate you mean.  If you link me to something, I can comment on it.

I didn't bring up Bosnia, you did.

Finally, I live in NY.  I have voted for Sen. Clinton twice enthusiastically.  I have never insinuated she is not a "real" democrat.  Yes, I have been disappointed by the campaign she has run, but I will vote for her in November if she is the nominee.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (2.00 / 2)

and one last thing.  I said threads not posts. I will assume that you just misspoke and this is not a lie or "bitter".

david


by giusd on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (none / 0)

When I said "diaries", I mean it was mentioned in the body of a diary.  Not in the comments below.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did she now? (2.00 / 1)

Please state your evidence for the proposition that Senator Clinton intentionally misspoke, as opposed to mis-remembering.  

Just to rule out a wrong answer to this I've heard before, the fact that she said it X number of times is no evidence at all for this proposition.  If her memory was off, she would describe her memory the same way every time.  That's how memory works.  Old memories get confused with and blend into newer, related memories.  When you describe an old event, the next time you remember the old event, your memory will be tainted by the way you described it this time.


by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she now? (none / 0)

So if it blended into a newer memory, when did she more recently come under threat of sniper fire?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she now? (2.00 / 1)

That's not a valid question.  You're assuming a simple rule that memories can only get mixed up with similar later events and are otherwise flawless.  Memories get mixed up not only with later events but with dreams, conversations, TV shows, imagination, and on and on.  Basically, human long-term memories are extremely unreliable.

I'm still waiting for your evidence of intent.


by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she now? (none / 0)

So she dreamed about the corkscrew landing?

How do you ever prove someone lied then?  Really?  Everyone can just say they were confused or mis-remembered something.

Be honest.  If Obama did the same thing, you'd be all over it.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she now? (none / 0)

I'm being perfectly honest.  It wouldn't even occur to me to call somebody a liar for an inaccurate description of a factual event that occurred 12 years ago.  Those memories are like swiss cheese, if they even exist.

As I have explained in other threads, I happen to know something about this.  I used to work for the Dalkon Shield Claimants Trust, and part of my job was to assess the testimony of women who were recalling more-or-less traumatic events that occurred between 5-25 years previous to the testimony--usually 15-20 years previous.  As part of this work, I did a fair bit of research into human long-term memory.  The only reliable ancient memories are the ones that you wrote down contemporaneously.

The fact that this, of all things, has been the most damaging single thing to Clinton of everything that has happened in this campaign (1) frosts me to no end, and (2) reminds me of how vague and random these damned campaigns can be.


by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, and (none / 0)

So far as proof goes, if you want to prove someone making a misstatement about a long-ago event is lying, you pretty much need evidence that they intended to lie, or else very strong circumstantial evidence.  The most accurate opening assumption should be that they mis-remembered.  That should certainly be the assumption if you're approaching the situation with any kind of generosity at all.


by Trickster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did she now? (none / 0)

Actually, I believe the corkscrew landing and having  Clinton go to the armored cockpit while everyone else sat on flack jackets actually happened and is confirmed by multiple sources. I think that was just standard procedure for a quite war zone where snipers were conceivable. If snipers had been likely, she wouldn't have been there at all, but there were precautions taken against the remote possibility.

She clearly inflated the danger in her memories, whether she did that as she was speaking or previously, it is hard to say. I tend towards previously, it is hard to believe she is stupid enough to try a lie that bald. On the other hand it is hard to believe she didn't have someone fact check her memories when other people who were there started disagreeing with her memories.


by alephnul on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My impression is that you're a GOP agent (none / 0)

15 bosnia threads compared to what??  515 Rev. Wright threads??


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disgusting diary, i hope that Jerome (2.00 / 1)

Again, this comment does not deserve troll rating, or a hide rating, so I am uprating.  For the record, here are the ratings for this comment:

TrueBlueCT      0
SevenStrings     2
TxDem08     2
Travis Stark     0
telfish     0
MikeyB             1

TrueBlue, Travis, telfish and mikey...if you do think this comment deserves a hiderating, then you should explain why !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're making stuff up (again). (2.00 / 4)

And you give it away with this line (emphasis mine):

Incredibly, the Reverend seems to be saying that Obama is making these claims (about disagreeing with Wrights remarks) only because of expediency.

Though I do enjoy your (unintentional) humor.


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:55:48 PM EST

Re: You're making stuff up (again). (1.33 / 3)

You won't be laughing if others got the same impression I did.

You won't be able to shout them down.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hilarious. (1.50 / 4)

I don't think either Obama or Clinton will be getting the votes of you or your fellow Limbaugh listeners.


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hilarious. (2.00 / 1)

So you're joining the 'with me or against me' brigade, eh?

You and CHimpy McHalliburton would make a good couple.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um, this from the poster who penned these gems: (2.00 / 1)

Bring Back Lieberman

Lieberman is simply an old school progressive, from the days gone by when using american power to spread democracy was considered VERY progressive.  He's just an old coot, but he's OUR old coot.  We should be so lucky to have such a statesman in our party.

Obama Guilty of Passport Scandal?

The Analysis Corporation, owned by Obama adviser and former CIA employee John Brennan, is the company that employs the alleged snooper.

Think about it.  Obama can't escape the scandal involving his racist pastor.  His numbers are tanking, and he starts to panic.  Suddenly we get a story casting him as the victim of political dirty tricks, forever the victim.

But now?  It's coming out that he may very well have been the perpetrator, and not the victim.

If this is true, this is the end for Obama.

Someone get on the phone to the superdels.  This divisive, possible racist candidate wouldn't know CHANGE if it bit him on the nose.  

And time after time, you cite rightwing sources in your work.

The real question is, "Are you really a Democrat?"


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um, this from the poster who penned these gems (2.00 / 1)

Politico is a right wing source?

I challenge you to back up your words, or apologize.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is too easy... (2.00 / 1)

In your passport hit piece, you cite this link:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/22/ passport-investigation-scrutinizes-emplo yee-of-firm-with-a-tie-to-obama/

Fox News.

Now, I know that Terry  McAuliffe praises Fox's "fair and balanced" reporting, but I think most Dems probably don't agree with you or Terry on that one.


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is too easy... (2.00 / 1)

Thats not a hit piece.  Thats simply a piece talking about investigating to find out who was snooping around the passports.

Try again.

BTW, politico is not fox news.

lmao


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um, this from the poster who penned these gems (none / 0)

It's one step ahead of Fox. It actually maintains the appearance of being balanced, but at the end of the day, it will always suckle at the teat of the GOP.


by vcalzone on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I imagine others (2.00 / 1)

may be as blinded by Obama hatred as you, but not as many as you think.


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're making stuff up (again). (2.00 / 0)

Who's shouting?  You lied.  You intended to lie.  Now you're lying about lying.

Would it make you feel better if I said, "You seem to be lying.  You seemed to intend to lie. Now it seems you're lying about lying."


by niksder on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright has sunk Obamas chances against the GOP (2.00 / 2)

I hope not.

I'm starting to think we can't even use him as a VP.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:04:51 PM EST

Better get on the horn to the superdelegates... (2.00 / 2)

Pronto!

They need to know that Obama is damaged goods!

By the way, superdelegate endorsements since Pennsylvania:

Obama - 4
Clinton - 1

Stupid superdelegates!


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 10)

As a Hillary supporter, I'm embarrased by this diary. Either the diarist has a major problem with reading comprehension, or possibly he never read the link he has provided. In either case, this diary needs to be deleted.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:05:59 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 2)

Im not deleting anything.  This diary is my opinion, and you are simply trying to censor me.

Look at the title.  There is a question mark at the end.  This diary is 100 percent honest.

But the impression that I and many others are getting is that, if you read between the lines he is saying  "We believe the same thing and have the same ideals and values. Obama says what he has to say to get himself elected."

I'm deleting nothing.  I have been honest in this diary.

p.s.  Almost 60 to 40 on the poll, saying that this will hurt Obama.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No... (2.00 / 3)

...what Wright is saying, which is basic Christian belief and teaching, is that there are two separate spheres: one secular, one concerned with God.

So yes, your diary is wrong and dishonest. Maybe Wright should counsel you on bearing false witness.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not exactly. (2.00 / 1)

In this interview Wright is defending his criticism, on moral and scriptural grounds, of the secular world, specifically of the United States. Wright claims the moral high ground here, saying that he spoke as a pastor, while Obama "says what he has to say as a politician."

Rev. Wright's point is clear: I spoke the truth about the United States while Obama said what he had to say.

This interview shows how Obama's attempt to get beyond this story with a speech failed. You can't give a speech you characterize as starting a national conversation about race and then hope the whole thing goes away. The deep problems with Rev. Wright's views of this country are still sitting there, and Obama's recent mis-steps accusing people who do not support him of "clinging" to guns and religion just reinforce the suspicion that in his heart of hearts Obama does agree with Rev. Wright.


by souvarine on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eloquent (2.00 / 1)

I wish I could formulate my thoughts into words like that.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:56:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not really. (none / 0)

Here's the full quote:

"Absolutely not," Mr. Wright said. "I don't talk to him about politics. And so he had a political event, he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I continue to be a pastor who speaks to the people of God about the things of God."

The key sentence here is the second one, and it has several meanings. The people of God are the members of the church, to whom, as Wright says, he speaks of God. The delineation is clear and stark; Obama as a politician is talking to a different audience. The other meaning comes from the concept of render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's. Both reinforce the point.

I know exactly what Wright is talking about, and I'm a lapsed Catholic.

As to Obama putting this behind him, I think he has. That's what the polls are showing. At the end of the day, as we're seeing in the NC commercial dispute, there's a difference between what Obama believes and what his former pastor thinks. The main problem with Wright is that he's a proxy for race and evokes the thing white people fear most, the angry and frightening black man. That's not Obama, so to do a coded play on racism - which is what a lot of this is about - interested parties talk endlessly about Wright.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not really. (none / 0)

Eh, I think the fear of Obama being seen as an "angry black man" is way overdone, and is largely projection on the part of some white liberals who do fear black people. While there are racists in America, and discrimination is an ongoing problem here, I don't think racism is a huge obstacle between Obama and the presidency. If it were, and being perceived as an "angry black man" was a big danger, then Obama's chances of winning the presidency would be a lot lower than they are. The risk for Obama is that he may be seen as unable to understand what most voters face in their lives. His race can be used to reinforce that perception, but it is not the source of it. Obama and his campaign have usually done a masterful job of using his bi-racial heritage to break down that perception.

As for spheres, Rev. Wright's remarks about "the things of God" are not controversial, I would call many of them brilliant. It is Rev. Wright's remarks about politics and the United States that are the problem. "Bill Clinton was riding dirty. He did us like he did Monica Lewinsky" is not the things of God.


by souvarine on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Depends. (none / 0)

The Angry Black Man is an old stereotype in America going back to the days of slavery, and it's been interesting and somewhat disquieting to see it being relaunched in this primary season. It rests in the assumption of some whites that, while blacks may have cause to be angry, they need to be punished for expressing that anger. Wright is the perfect proxy to tie that to Obama.

But in the end, though I agree that the reverend is something of a liability, he's not as much of one as some suggest. Sure he's going to be and already is being demonized, mainly by Clintonites; but the fact remains that he isn't Obama. If proxies are going to decide this, I'm more worried about Bill Clinton than Wright.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not really. (none / 0)

How on earth can Obama's race be used to reinforce the idea that he doesn't understand the situation of working class people? That he doesn't understand  hardship?

His race can be used to play to the racist fears of white working class people, or at least people can try to use it that way. I agree with you, though, that so far, it seems to be failing to work. Obama has pulled off some pretty amazing jujitsu on the race issue so far.

Wright's remarks about politics may be a problem for Wright, but it is pretty clear that they aren't a problem for Obama. Not that Wright doing a media blitz right now is great for Obama, but I doubt it will do any lasting damage. Still more than a week out from NC and IN, and right after PA, where the racist vote was hoped to be big for Clinton, it seems about the best time for him to speak up. Given the way he was slandered outrageously and grotesquely throughout the media, it seems unfair to require him to sit silent for nearly a year.


by alephnul on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

where the racist vote was hoped to be big (none / 0)

"""where the racist vote was hoped to be big for Clinton"""

Hmmm...the racist vote...well, Obama's racist vote has been carrying him in almost every state.

90 percent.  THERE'S your racist vote.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:49:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where the racist vote was hoped to be big (none / 0)

Yes, if you view the group loyalties of oppressed minority groups as exactly the same thing as the group loyalties of the ruling majority, then ...

Oh wait, as Governor Rendell said, there are racist white voters in PA who aren't willing to vote for a black man. There are very very few black voters who won't and haven't voted for plenty of white people. If Clinton won the primary, black voters would vote for her. Late in last year, Clinton was polling very ,very well among black voters, so black voters were willing to vote for her in the primary. Black voters didn't vote for or support either of the black presidential candidates in 2004.

If you can't understand the difference between members of an oppressed minority supporting the first member of their group to ever have a chance to be elected president, and members of the majority group which has oppressed that minority group refusing to vote for a member of an oppressed minority, I really can't help you.


by alephnul on Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 05:13:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where the racist vote was hoped to be big (none / 0)

DOnt you have a home you can go to?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:43:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

You haven't accurately interpreted, the short link that you provided. Any objective person can easily make that conclusion. There is nothing in the interview that justifies your diary and/or your question. Your unscientific poll is leaning the way it is, because such polls usually attract knee jerk reactions.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 2)

You work at FOX?  They use the question mark a lot.

It works like this.  Hillary Duff, Communist?  And that way, while he headline suggests something patently false, they still get to publish the headline.  Word is, FOX viewers are among the most uninformed of those who consume news.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty much sure that the sign of a piss-poor argument is when you're pointing to your punctuation.  

Kill the diary, fight stupidly another day.


by niksder on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 3)

You misunderstand Pastor Wright's words and I would hope you would try to understand them.  He said:

"I don't talk to him about politics. And so he had a political event, he goes out as a politician and says what he has to say as a politician. I continue to be a pastor who speaks to the people of God about the things of God."

That is not the same as saying what you have to say to get elected.  Politicians do not talk about the things of God.  When a politician says "God damn America" that means something quite different than when a pastor does.  If you had listened to Wright's sermon, not a speech but a sermon, what he is saying is that there is such a thing as God's Law.  Governments change laws, but God's law is permanent, unchanging.  And God damns those who do not follow his Law.  When a country treats any of its citizens as something less than human, when they turn their backs on the suffering and the poor, when they drop bombs on innocent civilians and kill and maim them then that country is not following God's Law and is subject to His damnation.   If you want to criticize that on religious grounds, on its interpretation of God and God's role in our affairs, then go right ahead and make that religious argument.  But it is not a political speech, it is not political teachings, and it is not words that would require a political leader to walk out on.  

It is a man of God speaking to people of God about the things of God. They were words which in fact political leaders should take some time to ponder.  And it is an expression which we should all spend a little bit of time considering.


by Piuma on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is the diarist, switching sides, an idiot? (1.00 / 2)

See? It has a question mark at the end!


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:05:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This does not deserve a hide rating.. (2.00 / 1)

So I am uprating !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 6)

How ironic

The title of the story you link is...

"Wright Says His Words Were Twisted"

Yes, at least in this diary they were.  


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:06:46 PM EST

Obama-Is-Toast Hit Piece #43 (2.00 / 2)

of the day. Bravo, this is more insipid and dishonest than 87% of your competitors.

Yes We Will!


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:08:51 PM EST

Re: Obama-Is-Toast (2.00 / 3)

And you're going to carry the rest of us down the chute with you...

If you think this isn't damaging, you're out of your mind.

And it looks like Wright is taking his show on the road.  I guess Obama didn't tithe this month.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're trollrating me? (none / 0)

That's rich.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hit Piece #43 of this diarist alone, (1.00 / 2)

I presume?


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hit Piece #43 of this diarist alone, (2.00 / 1)

In 24 hours I'm going to look like a prophet.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If not (2.00 / 1)

the quality of his efforts should count for more.


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha! (2.00 / 3)

Amazing that the superdelegates are too stupid to see that, eh?

If only you could set them straight!


by Bob Johnson on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:10:48 PM EST

Obama NOT = Wright | Clinton = Clinton (of Tuzla) (1.00 / 1)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:12:03 PM EST

Re: Obama NOT = Wright | Clinton = Clinton (of Tuz (none / 0)

I thought this morning you were excited about my coming over here :)


Obama's Pop. Vote LEAD = 600K | Clinton & McCain = WAR Authorizers
by NeuvoLiberal on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 0)

OH MY......is this what passes as a diary!


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:17:02 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Well Im done trying to justify my opinion for the night.

Have fun reading about this story tomorrow.  Wright has just giftwrapped the nomination for Hill.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:26:42 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 0)

Have fun penning your next diary: Were Coulter and Limbaugh Right and MSNBC Wrong?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THIS IS IT!!! (2.00 / 0)

Here it is!  This is the big turning point!  If you strain to misread a statement, it almost sounds like something that could be construed as a lie for people who already don't like Obama.

DOOM!!!


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (none / 0)

of course Obama is lying; everybody but MSNBC knows that. Obama is friend with Wright for 20 years.
There is no reason for you to wonder - it is obvious, unless you refuse to be logical.
Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:30:33 PM EST

Uh oh...Drudge is on this (2.00 / 1)

With the headline

(Wright) On Obama: 'He says what he has to as a politician'...

This story's got legs.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:40:02 PM EST

Re: Uh oh...Drudge is on this (none / 0)

People keep saying that and it never manifests itself. Weird.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh oh...Drudge is on this (none / 0)

OMG if Drudge says it that way, it's true!


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:43:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh oh...Drudge is on this (2.00 / 1)

True?  We KNOW its true.  It was an interview.  Unless you think Moyers made it up, of course.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh oh...Drudge is on this (2.00 / 1)

Uh no.  I was looking around for this story, to see if anyone had picked it up.

Nice try, though.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary and its author have (none / 0)

no credibility.


by bigdcdem on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:41:43 PM EST

60 percent agree with me (2.00 / 1)

And 40 percent agree with you.

Toodles!


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

The Wright issue needs to be discussed. The GOP is releasing a commercial in reference to Rev. Wright in NC next week.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:43:21 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 2)

What is there to discuss that the 65648393 diaries on the subject already haven't?

Maybe we can get another highly Wreckommended diary with the planes flying into the twin towers again?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:44:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 0)

It was such a big problem that Obama gained more than 10+ points on HRC in PA between when the story broke and the election on Tuesday.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Answer this; do you have a problem with a GOP commercial coming out in NC featuring Rev. Wright?

If the answer is yes....Rev. Wright is a problem.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Do you have a problem with the GOP commercial coming out tying HRC to Vince Foster's murder?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

I would LMAO if some Republican state party started running Vince Foster videos. It would mean they had no effective hits on Clinton and were reduced to throwing fantasies to the base and alienating most voters.

Unfortunately they have much more effective attacks to use against Hillary Clinton. I wish they were stupid enough to run with the tinfoil-hat stuff, but they are not. The funny thing is the number of Obama supporters who think those attacks hurt her.


by souvarine on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (none / 0)

Her rising negatives seem to confirm that they do.

Not a fantasy like PA's population is double NC's.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

endlessly, breathlessly discussing how it will be the end of the evil Obama will not make it end the Obama campaign.  

It also won't make Obama supporters go away.

But it will legitimize the smear-by-relationship attack, which will only help Republicans.

Do you really think there aren't any relationships that will bite Hillary for all this smear-by-acquaintance attacking?


by bawbie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Rev Wright is a mentor NOT AN acquaintance.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (1.00 / 2)

So the fuck what?

Seriously.

So what?

You are still saying that Obama is unelectable, and worse SHOULD be unelectable, because of the words of somebody else.

Somebody else whom you don't know.  Whom you refuse to acknowledge has any redeeming values.

You and people like you are scum for smearing Obama with this and for trying this hard to perpetuate this type of politics which makes normal, moral people squirm and run away from anything political.

Shame on you and all your kind.


by bawbie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:25:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the "fuck what".... (2.00 / 1)

Mentor: A wise and trusted counselor or teacher.

Obama lacks good judgment.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the "fuck what".... (none / 0)

The idea that you are willing to judge somebody based on an internet snippet, while ignoring everything else they've done in their life, and THEN go on to judge someone else's judgment based on their attending that persons church shows very very poorly upon your mental capabilities and moral sensibilities.


by bawbie on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the "fuck what".... (2.00 / 1)

Excuses, excuses....Personally, I would have walked; and you wouldn't. That's a moral choice we have to make in life. I'm sure G.W. has done good things in his life too, I didn't vote for him the first or second time....He lacks good judgment, IMO. Some things you can tolarate and others, you can not. Liberals for the most part are OK with Wright...Moderates are not.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the commercial - link (2.00 / 1)

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ 04/23/nc-republicans-preview-wright-obam a-ad/


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the commercial - link (2.00 / 1)

ouch


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:49:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the commercial - link (2.00 / 0)

Ouch?  What happened?  Did someone slap your ass and give you a headache?


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the commercial - link (none / 0)

Knoxvox, you have no sense of humor.


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the commercial - link (none / 0)

nm, looks like knowvox thankfully lost his ability to drive-by 0 and troll ratings


by mefck on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (1.66 / 3)

I just scanned this clown's other diaries.  He's a RedState/FreeRepublic Troll.  

Nothing to see here folks, move along....


by MikeyB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:58:43 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

I'm a lifelong progressive, thank you very much.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a fan of Hillary & want her to win (none / 0)

but I think the Wright issue is 'way overblown. I'm not going to freak out about something someone's pastor says...  I guess some people care about this but not me or people I know.


by Lynwaz on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:12:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

So what do you think his comments mean?

That Obama really doesn't think his grandma was a racist?

That rural folk don't really cling to religion?

Which one was he not being truthful about?

Hmmm?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 2)

That's not how Progressives act.  Progressive means "moving forward," getting beyond the traditional mud-slinging and looking for solutions to make things better.

This - and most of your diaries - are filled with disdain and hopelessness.  Perhaps you meant "Regressive."  And despite the TR that someone handed me, the vast majority of the comments here support my opinion.

Seriously, this is exactly the kind of post one would see on RedState or FreeRepublic.  No difference at all.  


by MikeyB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

The next time I need lessons on how progressives act from a freshfaced kid I'll let you know.

I was raising endangered species and releasing them in the wild most likely before you were born, kid.

I was involved in anti-logging organizations, and am a lifetime supporter of greenpeace.

So get off your high horse and look after your own...I have my opinions, and in my opinion, this casts Obama in a very bad light.

And 60 percent of the voters in this thread agree with ME on that.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

Wow, who would have guessed at 46 I'm just a freshfaced kid?

You see, not all environmentalists are progressives; many think that is some sort of touchstone, but that just makes you an animal lover who wants to protect the environment for wildlife.  I know lots of conservatives who are animal lovers and advocates for protecting the environment.  

Your opinions in all of your diaries are merely anti-Obama rants.  No genuine concern for the candidate; just hatred spewing.  By definition, a troll.


by MikeyB on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 2)

"""Wow, who would have guessed at 46 I'm just a freshfaced kid?"""

Anyone reading your postings.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:57:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

BO supporters keeps saying that Obama put the Rev. Wright issue behind him; apparently that was not the case. IMO, this is Obama's biggest problem, worst than "bittergate." Bittergate is a problem too but there are no visuals to the "bittergate" incident. I have a different view in reference to "bittergate" than the media does...Obama stating that rural Americans has antipathy to those who are different from them is more of a problem than guns and God statement.....but that's for a different diary.


by soyousay on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:03:53 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying about his views? (2.00 / 1)

The problem for Obama is Public Perception

In the interview with Politico, Wright said

"We speak to two different audiences. And he (Obama) says "what he has to say as a polician" And I say what I have to say as a Pastor.They are 2 different worlds"

Translation likely to be thought by the General Public

"Well you know Barrick has to say what he has to say, since otherwise he'd be crucified and he'd lose handily. And Barrick knows that I understand why he needed to those words to the public--it's ok,I understand--but if the public actually believes what Barrick said, then I've got a bridge to sell them...he and I are on the same page--he just can't say that we are on the same page--gg"

That is WHY this story is likely going to have considerable legs--and why the public may well not buy Obama's coming 2nd reply to the uproar.

Wright's words could not have come at a worse time for Obama imo


by ionsys on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:06:29 PM EST

Re: Wright speaks: Obama lying abou