universal healthcare is now off of the table?

Wow, Obama sure is a miracle worker!

Agreed. We need some serious house-cleaning around here.

when i left DKos a while ago, it was all the rage for Obama supporters to threaten not voting DEM if HRC was the nominee.... and similar admonitions about being a real DEM were routinely troll rated. Apparently now that DEM=Obama's new party the tables have turned. It's pretty rich getting lectured on this choice.

 Now if there were a way that when one of those posts are made the user could be sent to some place more to their liking by having their browser re-directed to freepervill or LGF or dkos or somewhere like that and embedded as a cookie, now that would be fun :)

I thought you were against blackmail?

I guess not if you're threatening to "purge" people who don't support your candidate.

BTW, Do you have any idea how downright creepy --never mind undemocratic-- the threat of "purging" people is?

Protip: Those who compare the use of troll ratings on a blog to the manner in which the KGB operated ought never to compare anything to anything else again.

Protip #2: Saying this does not make me a fascist.

I called no person "civil" here.  I commended a call for the restoration of civility.  If that same person acted in an uncivil manner somewhere else, the merits of that call still stand.  If I see a harmful lack of civility elsewhere, I will point that out.  I responded to the statement, not the person.  That is my general mode of interaction in a forum where we have little access to anyone's personhood.  Write something helpful, I will second it.  Write something unhelpful, I will criticize it.  And hopefully we move things forward.

That guy does not get enough credit.

Gosh things really improved under George W. Bush.

Bill and Hillary and Chelsea are progressive down to their cores. Hillary's mother grew up so poor she rode a train at age 8 from Chicago to L.A. with just her 3-year-old sister because their parents did not want them anymore. She lived with a relative who then made her work as a live-in maid with another family. When Dorothy Rodham returned to Chicago hoping to reunite with her mother, she was heartbroken to find her mother wasn't interested.

This implanted in Hillary a compassion for kids who do not have the chance to maximize their full potential. It's one reason she sympathized with Bill when they met.

Yes, Bill was just awful. The longest economic expansion in American history - just terrible.

This is the kind of nonsense that sets of the flame wars. This is revisionist crap -  nothing more, and it absolutely astounds me that so many people are willing to give you mojo for tearing down a good Democrat.

His ideas about women were mostly second hand and third rate.

The same thing could be said for you ideas about President Clinton.

"fall in love, then fall in line"

ver-fucking-batim.

if the clinton supporters can't absorb that message, well, i just don't know what to say.

I know what you are trying to do his noble but you did invoke Alegre's name in your post which is unnecessary.

I have seen so many folks on here supporting Obama seemingly going after her which I don't get .

I know she can handle herself , infact she has been great on that , I just think its inappropriate to put her name out there.

I didn't suggest any boycott, many of his supporter are indies, and left-leaning libertarians who have no need to boycott the party, they don't belong to it.  McCain is also attractive to them. I'm looking at them on the issues, how they attract voters on the issues.  She's positioned herself to appeal to those who like where she stands on national security, for example, and on universal health care. The electoral map gives her an advantage over both John and Barack, and in this way she can argue electability. She would never argue for her candidacy based on those Democrats who won't vote for the democratic nominee if it's him.  She's been more than clear about that, she's been passionate about supporting the eventual nominee.  

we got no beef. ;-)

It's perfectly fair to want to see more of Obama before making a decision (though I am sick of the primaries, I am glad as hell that everyone gets a vote. My vote counted! In PENNSYLVANIA! I want everyone's to count, this year and all years!!)

If you haven't seen his speech on race, that was what really had me saying, "wow, this man does care." When you get a chance (and yeah, that might be in September), could you check it out?

Well said.  You are reasonable, and you have my respect.

I see your refusal to be blackmailed doesn't include refraining from blackmailing others, then.

It took a lot to get that off your chest, so now you have the right to attack me for getting something off my chest?

Because that's what you are now doing. If I don't support Barack Obama, I am "vile." If I don't support Barack Obama I'm not a "progressive." If I don't support Barack Obama, I should "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT?"

After all, I have a right to vote for Hillary Clinton--A DEMOCRAT--if I so choose, and you don't have a right to call ME vile for saying so--which constitutes ATTACKING ANOTHER USER.

I'm not going to be a party to your totalitarian demands on my vote. You don't have the right to attack me because I won't vote for Barack Obama.

I will NOT be blackmailed anymore by ObamaS who demand my loyalty to Obama. I intend to vote for Hillary Clinton--A DEMOCRAT.

This is a progressive community with the goal of taking this country back for progressive causes.

Troll activity seeks to undermine that goal.

I (and almost every other reasonable person on this site) consider a vote for McCain or a decision not to vote to be that kind of activity.

There is no blackmail in that...I do not force anyone to be a member of MyDD...I do not force anyone to be a progressive.

BUT

If you're going to be a member of this progressive  community, you should be aware that activity seeking to undermine community goals will not be tolerated...and this is not an unreasonable request in the least.

it's supposed to taste awful in the hands of a poor chef.

that said, I believe in the folks on mydd. and i don't think anyone here will vote mccain.

You cannot impose your will on us and be lectured about it.

I think you're betraying some of your motivation in this argument, maybe?

simply because you want your candidate to win the elections in November!

. . . as if there's no other reason.  Maybe the consequences of a McCain victory? SCOTUS? Iraq? No, no, it must be just because Obama supporters' only motivation is the raw win.

Did it ever crossed your mind that the reason we voted for Clinton is because we can't stand Obama

You're assuming a lot with your "we" here.  All these threats of a Clinton rebellion assume that all Clinton voters are for her or nobody--as if there's not a majority of voters for whom Clinton was merely the first choice.

therefore in your mind we have to hold our collective anti Obama noses and vote for him, just because you want us to!

Just because you want us to . . . again, you're framing this in context of will and desire.  Like the argument for unity has consisted entirely of: "Vote for Obama because we demand that you do so and wish to impose our will upon you!"  And there have been no other compelling arguments.  [See SCOTUS, Iraq]

This is a democracy and we can vote for whomever we want to!

True enough.  But responsible little-d democrats weigh the consequences of their votes.  If you're really toting up the pros and cons of a McCain  vs. an Obama presidency, and you really come away with the belief that McCain will better serve the values and principles that Clinton stands for . . . then go ahead and vote for him, obviously.  Clinton herself will be disappointed in your choice to undermine what she's fighting for.

As I said,
"If there is even one person here that is going to vote Republican or Green or Libertarian just to punish the people who they have disagreed with here, I'll eat my hat."

So you are going to vote for one of the other Party's nominees to punish those who have failed to get in line with your choice?

If that is what you intend to do, and why you intend to do it, then I'll have all of the above - and some pickles, too.

(Pardon me if I think that kind of behavior is self-destructive.)

at least McCain will give me $5,000 toward my $22,000 + policy instead of the measly $2,500 from Obama which would not even cover my $1,000 deductible and $3,000 in copays.

If you're willing to sacrifice the reproductive freedoms for a tax break on health insurance that will never come, be my guest.

If you don't care about your freedom and the freedoms of others, I guess you don't deserve them.</