What She Wishes She Could Say (Super D's Listen Up!)

I was going to cover that brilliant article at Politico about the way media hype has turned the latest dust-up / gaffe into a major story (film at 11!), but I hear-tell it's already been covered today.  And frankly, I really don't want to give the haters another chance to spread their lies about Hillary's intent behind her words when she did that interview with the Argus Leader on Friday.

But in looking through the article, I ran across something on Politico's site from April 18th about all the things Hillary wishes she could say, but hasn't.  I thought it'd be useful to take a look at this as a reminder of the incredible restraint she and her team have used in making their case to the voters and to you - the super delegates who've yet to declare your allegiance to one candidate or another.  

Now, given the charges that have been leveled against Hillary regarding that unfortunate comment on Friday - that she throws the kitchen sink, the pots and the pans at BO and that her reference to RFK assassination was somehow code for something more sinister and hateful, I thought it'd be helpful to take a look at what she could be saying but isn't - and won't.  Contrary to popular belief folks, she's not tossing everything out there in some selfish attempt to undo our presumed nominee - she's actually been the very model of restraint, especially given what the Republicans are going to do come the general election.

This may explain why she hasn't given up her fight for our party's nomination, and won't.

Take a look...

What Clinton wishes she could say

Why, ask many Democrats and media commentators, won't Hillary Rodham Clinton see the long odds against her, put her own ambitions aside, and gracefully embrace Barack Obama as the inevitable Democratic nominee?

Here is why: She and Bill Clinton both devoutly believe that Obama's likely victory is a disaster-in-waiting. Naive Democrats just don't see it. And a timid, pro-Obama press corps, in their view, won't tell the story.

But Hillary Clinton won't tell it, either.

Snip

Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship.

Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico).

Republicans will also ruthlessly exploit openings that Clinton -- in the genteel confines of an intraparty contest -- never could. Top targets: Obama's radioactive personal associations, his liberal ideology, his exotic life story, his coolly academic and elitist style.

Snip

... one argument seems indisputably true: Obama is on the brink of the Democratic nomination without having had to confront head-on the evidence about his general election challenges.

That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves. Her candidacy may be a long shot, but no one should expect she will end it unless or until every last door has been shut.

snip

...there is reason to question whether he would be able to perform at average levels with other main pillars of the traditional Democratic coalition: blue-collar whites, Jews and Hispanics. He has run decently among these groups in some places, but in general he's run well behind her.

Obama lost the Jewish vote by double-digits in Florida, New York and Maryland -- and that was before controversy over anti-Israel remarks of Wright.

Snip

Does it seem odd that a woman with a polarizing reputation would be rolling up enormous margins among some of the country's most traditional voters? Three out of every four blue-collar whites in small towns and rural areas of Ohio voted for Clinton over Obama on March 4. The reality is, this is already an electorate with deep cultural divisions -- and that's in the Democratic Party.

Add to that her massive wins in WV and KY and her convincing win in PA.

The last two Democratic nominees, Al Gore and John F. Kerry, were both military veterans, and both had been familiar, highly successful figures in national politics for more than two decades by the time they ran.

Both men lost control of their public images to the right-wing freak show -- that network of operatives and commentators working mostly outside of the mainstream media -- and ultimately lost their elections as many voters came to see them as elitist, out-of-touch, phony, and even unpatriotic.

Obama is a much less familiar figure than Kerry or Gore, with a life story that is far more exotic, who is coming out of a political milieu in Chicago politics that is far more liberal.

The freak show has already signaled its early lines of attack on Obama. Polls show a significant percentage of Americans believe -- falsely -- that he is a Muslim. Voter interviews reveal widespread unease with minor and seemingly irrelevant questions like why he does not favor American flag pins on his lapel. Nor have we heard the last about Wright and his fulminations.

Here will be the real kitchen sink: every damaging comment or association from Obama's past, mixed together with innuendo and downright fiction, to portray him as an an exotic character of uncertain values and weak patriotism.

snip

Obama is indeed poised and self-confident. But the current uproar over his impromptu sociology lesson in San Francisco about "bitter" voters in Pennsylvania raise questions about his self-discipline, and his understanding of how easy it is for a politicians in modern politics to lose control of his or her public image.

You want to know why Hillary's not dropping out of this race for the White House?  Well folks if you've learned one thing about her this year I hope it's that she's no quitter.  She sees this as a fight for our party's chance at taking back the White House in November, and knows in her champion's heart that she's our only chance at getting there.

Ya know what?  She's not the only Democrat out here who understands that basic notion.  Over 17 million of us have voted for her and are still backing her fight to win in Denver.  

We're not giving up on her because she's not giving up on us.

Folks if you want a fighter who's battle tested, vetted, and ready to take on McCain with everything she's got look no further than Hillary Clinton.  If we're smart enough to send her into this battle, she'll leave McCain in the dust in this race for the White House.

Of that I have no doubt.



Display:


She Won't Say It (1.88 / 18)

And hasn't.  But that doesn't mean that others won't come the GE.  It's time we figured out some answers.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:43:45 PM EST

Re: She Won't Say It (1.88 / 9)

Help her out gang - click on my sig line willya? :o)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.90 / 10)

Someone's already pointed out something I've already noted in the diary - that this was from mid-April.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 4)

I don't think they know this valuable information.


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 1)

I think they know this and a lot more.  The stream of endorsements dried up to a trickle after Kentucky & West Virginia voted.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 5)

Actually, no. There was one day after WV when Obama got 13 new delegates.

And this weekend alone: Obama 7, Clinton 0


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 3)

What are you doing using facts on them?!?!

Stop it before their heads explode!


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (2.00 / 6)

"No one is forcing you to care," he said.  "You can take your diploma, walk off this stage and chase only after the big house and the nice suits and all the other things that our money culture says you should buy."  

"But I hope you don't, because our individual salvation depends on our collective salvation."

"At a time of war, we need you to work for peace," he said.

"At a time of inequality, we need you to work for opportunity.  At a time of so much cynicism and so much doubt, we need you to make us believe again."

Invoking his life journey to public service, the Senator said, "I spent much of my childhood adrift.  Through service, I discovered how my own improbable story fit into the larger story of America."

Senator Obama concluded, that like the presidency of John F. Kennedy, he too will call on the country to united "in service to a greater good."

"I intend to make it a cause of my presidency."  


by ReillyDiefenbach on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:38:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (2.00 / 4)

Sounds like it was an awesome speech.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:15:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (1.00 / 8)

sounds like more bs rhetoric from the liar


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:31:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (2.00 / 2)

it's sad that this is what some of you have been reduced to.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:35:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (2.00 / 2)

I am  little torn as to what I think is more idiotic... your comment or your sig line.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (2.00 / 1)

PJ Jefferson -

Why the hell did you TR this comment? There was absolutely nothing TR-worthy about it. You'd better give me a fucking answer and FAST before I report you for TR abuse.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (none / 0)

Looks like PJ went on a TR abuse rampage.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this, too! (none / 0)

Yes, I see that he did now that I looked at his recent comments and ratings.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:12:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 1)

You're including add-ons.  I'm talking about Superdelegates.  

The stunning 41 point loss in West Virginia followed by the 35 point loss in Kentucky, the one that Edwards was tossed around to supposedly prevent, gave the Superdelegates much pause.  I suspect they will ultimately coalesce around Obama but recent events have made that a very risky and bittersweet choice.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:06:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 1)

I guess we'll see.

BTW, how many has Clinton gotten compared to Obama since then?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:10:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 0)

She's gotten a bunch of pledged delegates.  

It will be interesting to see what the RBC does with the biggest delegates troves remaining, Florida and Michigan.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:14:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 3)

There are pledged and unpledged add-on delegates.  There are also pledged and unpledged PLEO (Party Leader and Elected Official) delegates.

The term "superdelegate" has been used to mean unpledged delegates--both add-on and PLEO.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (none / 0)

Mojo for objectivity and facts.


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:07:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

congratulations for fact filled post (none / 0)


by itsadryheat on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:27:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 3)

You know, I don't know why I continue to poke my head into Alegre's diaries anymore.  At first, it was to provide fact-based counter arugments.  

We all know how well those work (eyeroll).  After that, it was just for the laughs.  

Now, it's kind of like listening to a lecture on Nietzsche and eternal recurrence while at an Amway convention.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:09:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Haystacks. Snooze in the shade of a haystack (none / 0)


by itsadryheat on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Haystacks. Snooze in the shade of a haystack (2.00 / 1)

whattup?


by haystax calhoun on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:47:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (2.00 / 2)

Yes, it's a guilty pleasure for me.  Before I click there's a little frisson of excitement at the expectation - how far will she go this time?  I used to get angry, now I enjoy the shamelessness of it.  The only pity is that her defenders are giving up on her, and she makes it too easy to debunk the rubbish.  Still they are classics - they should be kept for posterity.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope the Super Delegates read this! (1.75 / 4)

She was gone from the rec list for a while there.  I was wondering if she stopped posting because the Clinton campaign could not afford to pay her anymore.  I keep waiting for her to say `Remember to put the name Alegre' in the box at the top when donating' just so she can get proper credit, and payment, just like the radio talk show hosts and pro-flowers


by Delver Rootnose on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

These diaries go straight to headquarters (none / 0)

at SuperDelegate Central, in a hollowed-out mountain in Colorado.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:13:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

Is this diary a snark??  Serious question...


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

What makes you ask - the fact that it is a 95% copy-and-paste job from a month-old Politico article, or the fact that the diarist obnoxiously talks to herself with the first three comments?


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:01:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

What, you dont do that too?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

No!  Do you?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:12:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

I'd never do such a thing!


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:13:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

Liar!  Owned.  You just did it, but that's okay, I still love you fogiv.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:14:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

Good catch!  I am bested.

P.S.  Love you too.

;)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Mon May 26, 2008 at 03:16:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

A poster of Jabba the Penn woofing down Twinkies and Ho-Ho's and wiping his mouth with a twenty dollar donation.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

You've obviously confused Axelrod with someone else.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:39:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.20 / 5)

The Pennster is hungry....donate now and feed his fat ass..


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:49:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

Enough with the fat hatred. There are plenty of ways Penn is a useless asshole who has done his unintentional best to destroy the Democratic party and succeeded in destroying Hillary Clinton's chance of being president, but the fact he is fat isn't one of them.


by letterc on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Oh dear, very weak - best not to try.


by interestedbystander on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

He uses the fifties for wiping the other thing...


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:50:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.80 / 20)

Alegre, I must ask, why is it I've never seen you be positive, gracious, or in any way polite about Senator Obama or his supporters?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.75 / 8)

ROTFLMAO! Hilarious question coming from a person who's never been positive, gracious, or in any way polite about Senator Clinton or her supporters! LOL!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.64 / 17)

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/25/2 24241/074/10#10
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:49:37 PM EST

Gosh, KnowVow, there's only one thing to say to this...

But keep talking, I love it when you make a fool of yourself. :)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Please, that comment on Hillary you cited demonstrated only your opinion that Hillary's opposition to Obama was moot and counterproductive because according to you, she's helping him.

Total insult, this time guised as a compliment.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Hillary's opposition to Obama was moot and counterproductive because according to you, she's helping him.

Uhh, isn't this a double negative? How could her opposition be counterproductive if it's helping him? Didn't you just make my point again for me? She's put us in a far better position to win in November than if she'd dropped out in March. Heck, why not just read back through a few diaries of mine, or talk to other Clinton supporters around here, like sricki, VAAlex, Rummahazzit, jarhead, etc, and see what they think before judging me based off your own personal biases?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

What you say may be correct.  If Obama wins the nomination, he is stronger in the fall having gone through this pillow-fight primary than he would have been without a scintilla of opposition.  

However, your comment was intended as an insult to Hillary's supporters by making it seem their efforts to criticize Obama were all in vain.  It wasn't the unity-grafting compliment you presented it to be.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:39:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, my friend, but you're wrong. Again, if you doubt my motives, talk to any of the Clinton supporters I referenced, or take a look through my diary history, and then come back and apologize to me for judging me, again, based off your own biases rather than my motives.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

I'm not judging your entire character here; I'm criticizing only the exact link you offered as specious proof of faux compliments to Hillary and by extension the efforts of her supporters.    

Attacking someone's argument should not be defensively construed as a wholesale attack on a poster.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Except that if you knew me, you'd know that wasn't my intention in the slightest, and I'm pretty offended it's being taken that way. Didn't you just rail on about Obama supporters taking the RFK comment totally the wrong way?

Here, take a look at this:

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/24/1 5612/4243/3#3

Now tell me how that's different from what I posted, and how it's a faux compliment. I'm sorry if just because I have to address it in one of Alegre's grandstanding cut and pastes, you think I'm being a concern troll. Perhaps, again, you should look beyond your own prejudices and stop trying to backpedal into making this into something it's not.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Well you see, that comment you cited now is consistent with what you were trying to prove.  I only criticized the other one because it didn't establish what you were trying to assert.

I have no need to attack you in a wholesale manner; I only respond to what you say directly.  I regret if you feel offended when I scrutinize your arguments and the evidence you cite to (not exactly) support them.   I never called you a "concern troll."  You do have a habit of making things up an attributing them to me ("conspiracy theories" etc.).  It's an unhealthy tax on the dialogue.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:40:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

I know this is an anonymous internet posting board, but the reason I come to MyDD as opposed to Kos, or Fark, or anywhere else is because it is closeknit, and I can know the people and understand them whilst I'm conversing with them.

I suppose I can't expect everyone to share that same sentiment, but that's what I mean- I've got kind of an idea where you stand, who you are, what kind of person you are, how you behave, etc, when I'm responding to your post. So if you made a crack at Obama, for example, I could know if it was out of snark, it was serious, et cetera.

We've been going back and forth enough that I figured you'd have an inkling I wouldn't say shit like that just to get in a quick dig at Clinton/Clinton supporters, and all you did was encourage the real trolls who are the ones doing real damage to our party, like KnowVox. And you think I've making things up and attributing them to me? Pot? Is that you, man? It's me- kettle!

Besides, I've had no choice but to develop a sense of begrudging respect for you, since our verbal parries have been exquisite, compared to the "ROTFLMAOBBQWTF Obama sux0rz!!!" I get from people like the aforementioned troll. You, at least, can have an actual conversation, even if I disagree with you, and you're a nuance-ignoring son of a bitch. ;)

(that last bit was snark, by the way; always helpful to point it out in this environment, alas)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok (2.00 / 1)

I appreciate the clarification.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Well done peeps. (2.00 / 1)

I enjoyed this exchange.


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:01:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well done peeps. (1.00 / 3)

"""the reason I come to MyDD as opposed to Kos"""

liar,

you hang out at KKKos all day, everyday.

Go post a cat pic, limoboy.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well done peeps. (none / 0)

you need to take a break from the web...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:28:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Have you taken names off of your sig line?  It seems shorter.  I think I remember a third one.  


Capitalization is the difference between "I had to help my uncle Jack off a horse..." and "I had to help my uncle jack off a horse..."
by igottheblues on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:46:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

LMAO! Next time, look at the time stamp.

And thanks for joining me in voting Hillary Clinton the next President of the U.S.!!!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 3)

What, the part where my comment predates yours? I know, doesn't it make you look completely foolish!

Man, KnowVox, you just make it too easy these days, seriously! :)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Your backhanded insult to Clinton was posted at 10:49:56. Less than one minute later, you're bloviating about being "positive, gracious and polite." ROTFLMAO!

O+ for sincerity!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

You might want to have at some of your apparently self-hating Clinton supporting friends, as they joined in mojoing it. Go figure, huh? Ahh, but it's so nice to see you trying so hard. Poor little guy, reduced to trolling as hard as he can. Ahh, well.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:14:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Dude, I have no idea why you engage this troll anymore.

The exchanges and your pwnage are funny as hell though!


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:18:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

It's just sad to watch him try so hard; it breaks my heart. He used to be so boisterous, and now he's just reduced to "ROTFLMAOBBWWTFZOMG" as his highest form of communication.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

Surely you realize that the chances of her winning haved reduced so as to be microscopically small.  What will you do when Obama becomes the nominee?  Continue to scream at the unfairness of it all?

Can you ever return to being reality based?


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

Wow.  Campskunk HR'd when ragekage said it, but uprated when KnowVox said the same thing.  Inconsistent much?

RK uprated in protest of HR abuse.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Allergy continues to be allergic (1.75 / 8)

to facts, kindness, Senator Obama's merits, etc.


by Builderman on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wonder how they pretend to unite (2.00 / 5)

the Democratic party if Hillary gets the nomination.

With all the smears and hit jobs on Obama I would think some people might get upset.


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wonder how they pretend to unite (2.00 / 1)

The unity pony has been stolen. Someone stole the unity pony! Let's blame the Clinton supporters!!


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 7)

We're on a hide-rate abuse spree tonight, I see. Kudos to you, Campskunk.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 7)

Uprated to counter ratings abuse.


by Builderman on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me too. (2.00 / 6)

They are on a t'rate rampage.


No way. No how. No McCain!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.85 / 7)

Ummm... you HAVE heard of our writer's strike over at dKos - haven't you?

For feck sake - go take a look at your own comments here for your answer.

What a joke.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 8)

At least the jokes at MyDD are coming to an end. I think Al G. has helped Obama Nation finally bring MyDD back into the fold.

I can't wait for you to stay on the rec list with those pro-Obama/anti-McCain diaries next month!


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

That's not a very gracious thing to say, and it doesn't reflect well on our favored candidate, Obama.  You may be pissed at Alegre, but can the hostility.  You achieve nothing by hardening her heart.  And it's beneath us.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.25 / 4)

Who cares about "hardening her heart"? She's obviously beyond help - it's clear the only Democrat she will cast a ballot for in November is Queen Hillary. Why tip-toe on eggshells so as to not offend someone who takes such unrestrained glee in tearing down the presumptive Democratic nominee and spreading false rumors and accusations against him??? Alegre is responsible for more of the Hillary-hate on this site than any other single poster b/c of her blatant lies and dishonesty. I know I certainly have an even worse opinion of Senator Clinton and her campaign team in large part b/c of Alegre.

She's not a Democrat - she's a Hillarycrat. I look forward to June 4th b/c she will have nothing left to say as Clinton will finally be out of the race.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

I've got to say that I've been a big advocate of modeling Obama and refraining from attacking the loonier of the Clinton supporters.  But my patience is reaching an end.  There are reasonable Clinton supporters who can be brought around . . . but those who deny reality and live in a fantasy world where Obama is responsible for Hillary's self destruction are beyond reach.  They need to be treated like the scourges on the party they have become.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 8)

And I've said it before, we've got Senator Clinton to thank for ensuring that's the case. We've registered four million new Democrats, we've built party infrastructure in places it's never been before, we're expanding the electoral map like never before, we've broken fundraising records, and the Republicans can't hold a candle to the kind of fighter Senator Clinton is...

by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:49:37 PM EST

I was never at dKos, sorry. I don't know how that applies here, anyway, or answers my question. And I went and took a look at my comments, and found that.

So, you didn't actually read any of my comments, did you? You don't know who I am, or anything about me, or how I feel about Senator Clinton.

Does it bother you people still take you seriously?


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 2)

Basically, alegre and company got sick of the fact that they were outnumbered at DKos, so they decided to boycott DKos...but called it a "strike" in a stunning move of self-aggrandizement.  They posted GBCW diaries protesting that DKos had become an "echo chamber"--then promptly came to MyDD and made it an echo chamber.  Meanwhile, DKos's viewership goes up, and the Kossacks laugh hysterically at the very mention of alegre's name.

Basically, you didn't miss much.  It was a whole mess of stupid on both sides.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:09:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 1)

A very nice summary Elsinora. And, might I add - a quite funny one.

It IS pretty funny that they decided to call it a "strike" when absolutely no one over at dKos could possibly care less if she and her merry band ever came back.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (none / 0)

It was actually very cruel, if I recall.  I hadn't been reading DKos much this primary but I logged in randomly one day and saw the writer's strike diary.  Like vultures, contributors were gloating over their chorus of derogatory vomit on a woman named Alegre (who I had never heard of previously) and making fun of her because she used the word "strike" as an analogy for a boycott and discontinuation of volunteer literary labor.  

Since I wasn't heavily involved with the primary then, I thought I was at the same good old DKos and made a few comments about how weird all the vitriol was, but I too was lambasted.  It took me a while to catch up on how much things changed there.  The last time I posted there, a while ago, someone said I had an "Oedipus complex" because I voted for Hillary.  

I don't hear stuff like that on MyDD.    


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:49:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 1)

Well, that's because it became the Clinton version of Dkos, where Obama supporters got treated poorly because some people got their feelings hurt at Kos.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:54:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 1)

It happens and it's justifiable.  

But I think you know full well this isn't the Clinton version of DKos.  Without a point of reference, it may be easy to make some statements, but I know of many pro-Hillary sites that are very narrow in their partisan views and very disparaging towards those who don't share it.  This site is the closest thing to neutral I can find and it presents the broadest cross-section of viewpoints out there.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:01:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 2)

It happens and it's justifiable.

So, we're onto "Two wrongs make a right" now?

Well, I don't know; as I've said, I never got to see Kos before all this went down, and it seems very much more tame than people have been telling me. Considering the volume of the site, the number of users, and the traffic is gets, I'm not surprised if there's a few assholes.

But this is as close to neutral as can be found, methinks, which is why I'm here, but that's not for lack of trying on the part of some of our diehard Clinton supporters around here. Hell, were you here for SusanHu's particular brand of hate? And TexasDarlin just moved her hate to her own blog, but it was here for quite some time. And, again, Alegre, who's supposedly the champion of Clinton bloggers everywhere, has engaged in intellectual dishonesty at such a level it's astounding anyone takes her seriously. If that's what she did at Kos, I don't see why anyone's surprised she got run off.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:07:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (none / 0)

I'm not very familiar with the specifics of SusanHu or TexasDarlin except for a few random remarks I've come across.    

It happens and it's justifiable.

So, we're onto "Two wrongs make a right" now?

It's not so black and white.  I think anyone can make a good argument either in favor or in opposition to retaliatory abuse/counteroppression.  Minority groups, political, racial, sexual, or otherwise, have historically been granted a bit more latitude to complain about the majority than vice versa.  I see no overt problem with that.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The "writers strike" summed up: (2.00 / 1)

Kossacks laugh hysterically at the very mention of alegre's name.

Who the fuck doesn't?

She posts such insane rah-rah drivel, she's like a funnier version of Jerome, with more ritalin.

I love her hallmark posting style.  First two or three posts to stave off the torrent of laughter.


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:05:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It was pretty much the worst thing ever (none / 0)

I don't understand why anyone would think it was a good idea to partition the heart of the liberal blogosphere into two.  It may have been inevitable; there's no doubt that after Edwards dropped out the Obama presence on Kos and on the internet in general became overwhelming.  I remember wishing, even commenting once or twice for Obama supporters to stop dogpiling the always outnumbered Clinton supporters, simply because it does no one any good if everyone who thinks differently is driven away. And I don't blame people for feeling driven, either.  When there are 15 people demanding answers from someone, at least couple of them will be assholes because there are always assholes on the internet.  On top of that, everyone expects a reply even though it might take hours to write them all.  I don't blame HRC supporters for not feeling welcome at Kos, although I applaud anyone who's willing to brave the trolls and engage people on the 'other side.'

But to encourage this division, and especially to celebrate it or boast of it, that I don't understand.  It's a tragedy.


by leftneck on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:44:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

"Ummm... you HAVE heard of our writer's strike over at dKos - haven't you?"

LOL......yeh, I heard about it.

No one misses the daily fact-free diatribes over there, believe me.


by Deano963 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:07:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Ummm... you HAVE heard of our writer's strike over at dKos - haven't you?

BLEG: What movie does this remind you of? Woody Allen? .... a satire of seventies radical groups, along the lines of Python's People's Front of Judea vs the Judean People's Front. Some would-be radical offended that no one had heard of the revolutionary army he was convinced had the bourgeois quaking in their boots?


by BlueinColorado on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:49:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

BRIAN: Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together!
FRANCIS: We are! Ohh.
BRIAN: We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the
    common enemy!
EVERYONE: The Judean People's Front?!
BRIAN: No, no! The Romans!

Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Mon May 26, 2008 at 10:06:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

there is a writers strike going on at Dkos?  Sorry I didn't notice.


by Delver Rootnose on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:21:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ban ragekage the troll (1.00 / 4)

oh please stfu you fatass.  take your idiotic 'comments' back to the DailyKKK.

Anyone want to bet he posts some ridiculous cat picture in response?

I wonder...do you have a limo, ragekage?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:35:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ban ragekage the troll (none / 0)

This comment was wildly inappropriate regardless of your opinion of the other poster.


by tessellated on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 4)

Over 17 million of us have voted for her and are still backing her fight to win in Denver.
Let's see some evidence of the emphasized part.  Hop to it.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (1.83 / 6)

C O L !!!!

Hop to it ????

Seriously dude - why don't you just blow a dog whistle while you're at it.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 6)

... that was snark in case ya missed it.

Holy crap - if I'd slipped up and said something like you people you'd be all over my case over racism.

I won't even begin to tell you how offensive things like "hop to it" sound to women.  We don't take orders or respond to commands pal.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 10)

Is this some code that I, a 50 year old feminist who teaches women's studies, never heard of?

Hop to it is not anything gendered. Stop making things up. It's not good for the soul.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK (1.66 / 3)

Here's something a 50 year old gal has heard of:

Iron my shirt, dammit!"

Hop to it! Nothing sexist there. LOL!


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (2.00 / 6)

Yeah. That was sexist. It was two jerky shock jocks trying to get publicity, not exactly evidence of widespread sexism.

Here's a question: If there's so much sexism,then why was HRC the frontrunner?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (1.75 / 4)

Hillary IS the frontrunner among Democrats, winning the popular vote in the primary and beating McCain in virtually every poll. She continues to win landslide victories by 35 and 40% because people know she's a fighter and has fought for progressive Democratic principles her entire life.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (2.00 / 2)

Are you an AI of some kind?  Wintermute, is that you?

Seriously, I can not only predict how you'll generally respond to something, but I can usually predict the phrasing and even punctuation.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:05:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (2.00 / 2)

Obama won more contests with very large margins. He happens not to do well in Appalachia, I'll grant you that.

And you know that popular vote argument is bs. No need to do Groundhog Day on it here.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (2.00 / 2)

For a frontrunner, she certainly seems to lagging the leader.


by deminva on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:15:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

And yet... still no evidence.

I'm still waiting...


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 1)

Seriously ma'am... why don't you provide some evidence for your assertion?

Let's see it.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:37:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

More imagined slights.  The hallmark of a Hillary loon.  You've become a caricature of yourself.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for the morale boost.  BTW, last weekend I listened to that conference call in full that you posted and it made may day.  

<3's for Hillary and you.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (2.00 / 2)

When do we get to talk about all the things Obama wishes he could say to the Supers, but can't, but that McCain will say to voters?

And when was "Clinton tested in battle"? Rick Lazio?

The guy from Yonkers whose kids have to use google to find his name?

During all the fights she led in the Senate against Bush/Cheney? Oh yeah, there weren't any.

Against Obama? Oh yeah, she lost.


by BlueinColorado on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:32:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

She did say it. It didn't work.
The Republicans are also saying it. They just said it in a few proxy-fight special elections. It didn't work.
The primaries are over!
Focus on McCain
by really not a troll on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She Won't Say It (none / 0)

You just said it.  And her surrogates have said much of it, repeatedly.


by Same As It Ever Was on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What She Wishes She Could Say (Super D's Liste (none / 0)

This article is from more than a month ago. And they had one on what Obama wishes he could say.  I'll look for it now.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:44:56 PM EST

Go For It (1.90 / 10)

Do your own diary though will ya?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go For It (2.00 / 2)

I love to discuss issues and you always present such interesting topics for discussion.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go For It (